DeforestationDiscussion


 * Deforestation Harkness Notes 10/26**

__Miller__- //Better REDD Than Dead, Illegal Deforestation//. Pros/cons, keeping it in the community- local forest management worksers taken advantage of, how it can help __Jan__- //Keeping it in the community//: central Mexican loggers- should private businesses control logging? //Not a small problem//: religious background, forests in southern Uganda, natives use forests for religion and and when is taking it too far __Evan__- //Keeping it in the community//: Michocan forest, forest may be in danger, wood is inefficient compared to other forests, //Not a small problem//: REDD takes forests away from local people and their traditional uses of the forests. __Hannah__- //Long road to sustainability//: illegal deforestation, difficult to regulate. //Not a small problem//: difficult to preserve environment and preserve culture __Katie__- //Something stirs//: rainforests will be gone by end of the century. Rainforests are in poorer countries, so easier to lose. //Keeping with Community//. __Drake__- //Something Stirs//: conservation of forests, difficult. Problems and issues with trying to conserve them. //Not a small problem//: native people’s land being taken away by REDD. __Wilson W__- //LA Times BP spill//… restates known information, what died, 4.9 million gallons crude oil, future effects of long lasting effects, divides oil into different categories- 25% burned skimmed, piped, 25% evaporated or dissolved, 25% residual oil, thick goo or light sheens on water forming tar balls that can wash up for 10-20 years, 25% 4 exxon valdeez spills drifting 3000 below surface as a oil cloud. Nathan’s //fish parasite// website. __Ford__: //Special report on forests- less smoke, less ire//: Since 2004 deforestation Amazonian has decreased, still cutting down too many trees. Cattle farmers brazil want to cut down trees to graze cattle, 1 hectare per cow already there, so there is plenty of land for grazing. //Money can grow on trees//: alternative ways of making money other than deforestation; mangrove forests in Vietnam- saved money when it came to flooding. __Nathan__- //Something Stirs//- what’s happening to trees right now. Hard Rock Café puts up a time clock of remaining rainforest, had to take down sign. //Not a small problem//- Indian way of life, government taking the land- leader was forced at gun point to give up land. Ancestral wood to china in log form. __Wilson P__- //Something Stirs, Keeping It In The Community//. Already lots of products from rainforest without deforesting. Rubber, medicinal plants without removing entire forest trees. Already have cleared enough land to sustain world population. Hard rock/rainforest café clock. Deforestation has taken a back seat to global climate change, hasn’t been good for cause. Rainforests owned by government. When given to indigenous communities and they are not allowed to sell/deforest/sell the rights, they will be intelligent of how to maintain. Community in Mexico logged a certain point to the forest while allowing others to regrow. Used profits wisely. In India gov officials take advantage of area.
 * Class Summary of Articles Read:**
 * Nathan – REDD = "reducing emissions from deforestations and degredation"
 * Hannah & Jan- Hunter-gatherers expelled through this progress.

Katie: **human population**, more lands need to be cleared for homes, living space, more people consuming resources coming from forests. Wilson W- **debt**. If the country has the resources, they can sell this to clear debt. Wilson P- **foreign countries** coming in (**trade**). China has used its own natural resources and pay who ever they need to and deforest if looking for hard woods or mining if they’re looking for coal. Chinese building road in Africa and would use that road to transport it back and forth. Cleared Indonesia’s resources for coal mining Jan- **no education** of how to take care and manage forests. Praising a Mexican community for the management of the forest w/ sawmill. Uganda, PPNG forests used for cultural aspects and no thought to what to do when it’s gone. Misinformed. Wilson W- take natural resources for granted Wilson P- **no foresight** Ford- **high price mahogany and teak, only in rainfores**t… high price items and want to sell Miller- Mexican loggers are rebellious, poor, unlettered, **poor starving culture doesn’t think about a big thing like global climate change** Wilson P- if they are modeled it by the govt then they don’t think it’s wrong, if govt owns less and they can earn the rights, they’ll want to sustain it. Jan- do you think these should be governed by govt or owned privately> Katie- can’t rely on govt, too many things going on for them to focus on forests all the time. Wilson W- committee or group to monitor and work with locals and govts about what will happen when it’s gone. Hannah- China and Indian have resources to know about enviro issues, don’t really care. Ford- if the country is in tremendous debt, care more about population than trees. Wilson P- govt using for own purposes Ford- govt functioning better than the people… ?? Wilson P- govt owns everything but govt comprised of people with alterier motives. If communities given incentives then they can be sustainable. Ford- I think it’s unrealistic to think they will convert from totalitarian style to democracy just for sake of forests. Jan- **economy #1**, further down the list environment Miller- I can see that there would be exploitation no matter who you give it to. Govt, business owners, committee, radical members may say unrealistic things like “no cutting down tress, no paper”… Jan- all these articles talk about CO2 emissions, they’re main purpose is not necessarily what it should be Miller- climate change group using deforestation to make it to their cause Wilson P- too hard to have a global initiative Hannah- REDD is even having problems. Katie- people passionate about subject need to create the committee and not get the radical thinker. Nathan- we need to get someone like Ms. Tuttle, moderate. Needs someone who is a top scientist who knows the good and bad of both sides Ford- executive goes in and pays someone to cut down trees. Wilson- need to make people care Evan- how do you make them care. Wilson- educate Ford- logging companies don’t care about people living in forests Wilson- laws broken already Wilson W- **stricter policing force** Miller- **cap and trade per acre**… measuring mass removed Jan- how do we deal with Wilson P- infringe on someone’s sovereignty?
 * Question: Why is Deforestation happening? What causes it?**


 * Ms. Tuttle's Summary Thoughts About Discussion:**

We discussed common themes of "Poverty Culture" and challenge of "saving" when the focus is on just making it through the day or week with basic needs. We discussed the need for connection of climate change to deforestation within these communities. We discussed the "Political Culture" in other countries: in America, politicians are ideally supposed to be the "public servant" and take low salaries while working on behalf of citizens. In other countries, politicians are often the highest-paid citizens. Often gaining political office is like gaining fame and fortune in the U.S. We have the "entertainment" industry to offer an outlet to people who want to just be famous and rich. The route to $$$ and fame is not really through political office, which will allow for more ideal political candidates who __really want the job__ to be working for the citizens. We discussed the challenges of taking on a "Global Initiative" How do we bring about "Cultural Change"?

Many non-profits are able to assist with changing culture when related to a special interest area like environment, malnourishment, etc. Non-profits need a PROJECT MANAGER to manage all the details of the project and follow the mission of the non-profit. They need a DOER to perform the actual tasks and get things done (ie a skilled builder to go in and build the house for Habitat for Humanity). They need a COMMUNICATOR to communicate the purpose of the organization to the public and educate the community it serves. They need a DEVELOPER to seek out and develop projects. However, even a non-profit will have trouble managing a global initiative.